How We're Putting 2&2 Together: Tommy

The first in a series of interview segments with the stars of Putting 2&2 Together. Join Dan Murray and Peter Cosmas Sofronas as they talk about the ins and outs of putting Tommy together. Theme Music by Valerie Forgione.

Transcript

Peter Sofronas  0:05 
Hi there, my name is Peter Cosmas Sofronas. And I am the writer and director of Putting 2&2 Together. Welcome to the first of what I hope will be a series of segments where I peel back the virtual curtain and chat with the cast members of this podcast. In this first segment of what I like to call, How We're Putting Two and Two Together, I'm speaking with Dan Murray, the actor who plays the lead role of Tommy Hanson. Dan, thank you for joining me on this special interview segment.

Dan Murray  0:41 
Of course.

Peter Sofronas  0:42 
So this is the first of what I hope to be a bunch of interview segments for both mid-season and post-season. hiatuses. We certainly got a large enough cast. So this could be a podcast in and of itself.

Dan Murray  0:56 
Absolutely.

Peter Sofronas  0:57 
So I guess first off, tell me about how you got into this.

Dan Murray  1:02 
So that's actually an interesting story. I was in a play called Red Herring with Rachel Rabinovitz of Hayley fame, Chris Rose of Anthony fame, Jenny Fielding of Rachel fame. I don't want to forget anyone, certainly. But I think that was it.

Peter Sofronas  1:22 
I think those were the key three with memory serves.

Dan Murray  1:24 
Yeah. So one day, we were doing — I want to say it was even set build. It may have been a rehearsal, but I think it was a set build one Saturday. We all came in. And the three of them were just talking about this podcast that they had had a table read for. So I was definitely interested. They started to talk about it. And it sounded really cool. And then one of the rehearsals later that week, or even the next set build, they came in, and they were like, hey, Dan, you act, right? And I was like, well, golly, where am i right now? But I was like, Yeah, why do you ask? They're like, well, we, uh, we might be needing someone to jump in on this podcast. And I was like, Oh, yeah, sure. What's it about? Who would I be? How many episodes would I be in? And they're like, Well, the main character, probably.

Peter Sofronas  1:25 
Side note, the actor that I had in for the reading for the part of Tommy opted not to go ahead with the series. So I suddenly found myself meeting a lead very quickly.

Dan Murray  2:16 
And here I am.

Peter Sofronas  2:18 
Yeah, I remember — what was it — you coming over to where I was living at the time and having this interview segment?

Dan Murray  2:26 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  2:26 
I don't know which one of us was more frightened.

Dan Murray  2:29 
Yeah. And I believe Adam, was there for at least some of it right? 'Cause you wanted me to read with him? Or am I imagining that?

Peter Sofronas  2:34 
I think the first time was, you came over and just talked with me. I gave you a script and stuff to look over. And I think you came back to read with Adam.

Dan Murray  2:47 
Right.

Peter Sofronas  2:47 
I think by that point, you had already more or less had the part and it was just a matter of just seeing how you two sounded together.

Dan Murray  2:53 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  2:54 
The rest is history. I guess.

Dan Murray  2:56 
That's right.

Peter Sofronas  2:57 
So tell me about Tommy.

Dan Murray  2:59 
Tommy is a very interesting character to me. I'm sure if I knew Tommy in real life, he would irritate me all the time, but I just could never stay mad at him. He's, he's just so incredibly passionate about everything that he thinks and feels that I really think he never has any malice, even when he's, you know, even in his darkest moments, he's really just reacting to pain from before or things that remind him of different things. And, and he's never really trying to hurt people. But his own raw wounds caused him to react the way that he does. And because he's so passionate about everything. The whole first season is just Tommy yelling at people and getting mad and then apologizing and making it work again.

Peter Sofronas  3:50 
How many times did Tommy run out of the room in the fir st season?

Dan Murray  3:53 
Oh, it became a joke. Oh, whose turn is it to get him now?

Peter Sofronas  3:56 
We play with that in subsequent seasons?

Dan Murray  3:58 
Yes, yes.

Peter Sofronas  3:59 
Yeah. Without without giving too much away. There's actually a script that I'm working on right now in which it happens again.

Dan Murray  4:06 
Ah, there you go. But truly, I think that all does add to his charm, because it all is just a testament to how strongly he feels about things and the people around him.

Peter Sofronas  4:14 
Well, I mean, this show is pretty much all about relationships. And there are plenty of characters, as I said, to have relationships to.

Dan Murray  4:23 
Oh, yes

Peter Sofronas  4:24 
Obviously, there are two key relationships. You know, one is his boyfriend, and the other is his sister — who previously dated.

Dan Murray  4:35 
That's right.

Peter Sofronas  4:36 
So tell me about Tommy and David.

Dan Murray  4:39 
Uh, well, so similarly to what I was saying before, if I knew Tommy, I'm sure he'd irritate the hell out of me, but I'd love him anyway. David has the patience of a saint, for sure. And that definitely speaks to the connection that they have, because every single time it comes up, even when they're arguing, you can tell that it's coming from a place of really, really strong connection that if they're arguing, it's because they both have these feelings about the relationship that they think that they're in. And like any two people, they have to figure out where their middle is. And so I think there's a lot of — right out the gate, there's a lot of growth. There's a lot of growth in the play before they even start dating. Because Tommy already has some, some pain, some repressed things and things influencing his behavior, David sees through it immediately once they start to talk. And he starts to get Tommy to open up. And that's long before any of this all happened. And throughout Season One, and then especially Season Two. And as we go forward, they really help each other, realize who they are as individuals, while being part of a pair.

Peter Sofronas  4:43 
Tommy definitely has more of the troubled past. But as we have found out, and as we are going to find out in Season Two, there's a lot more to David's past than most people realize — including Adam, who played David, had no idea about some of the recording some of the scenes which have yet to appear. He was just as baffled at what was coming is hopefully the audience is.

Dan Murray  6:09 
Hopefully, yes. And obviously David knows about his own past. But David himself is surprised by some of the things that he learns and ways that he grows.

Peter Sofronas  6:18 
And it's really just a matter of, you know, things that he would not have experienced or even thought about if he hadn't met Tommy.

Dan Murray  6:24 
That's right.

Peter Sofronas  6:25 
It's kind of refreshing from the writer/director's standpoint of just being able to delve into a different character's background, and it's not just all about Tommy.

Dan Murray  6:35 
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Peter Sofronas  6:36 
I mean, it is all about Tommy. But you know what I mean.

Dan Murray  6:38 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  6:38 
And then the other key relationship is his sister who starts the series. They're kind of not at each other's throats, but um... very awkward around each other. And Rachel is kind of P.O.-ed at Tommy for a certain reason.

Dan Murray  6:56 
Yeah. Yeah, that is, that is definitely a tougher one. I mean, obviously, throughout all of Season One, they're still trying to work through the pain of Tommy sort of stealing David from her. Obviously, no one had that intention. But, you know, it's what happened. And so there's a lot of tension there in Season One. And then — actually, I am going to need to be reminded about Season Two, 'cause now I'm thinking about Season Three already, since we started reading it.

Peter Sofronas  7:24 
They're finding their way back to each other. But we also delve into some of Rachel's storyline and things that Tommy thought he knew or didn't

Dan Murray  7:34 
Right.

Peter Sofronas  7:36 
And so they take the entire season just to be able to get on even ground.

Dan Murray  7:42 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  7:43 
I mean, even in Season Three, which I'm writing right now, it's still tentative, I think they're, they're better. But you know, you know, even with a six-month jump, a lot can happen in six months. Yeah, we're a lot needs to happen in order for them to get back on track, but they are getting there. Obviously, Tommy's attack at the end of Season One rushed things.

Dan Murray  8:06 
Right.

Peter Sofronas  8:07 
Faster than it would have gone, which probably accounts for some of their issues in Season Two.

Dan Murray  8:13 
Season One, you've got the whole tension of just the new relationships, the new status quo, all of that. And then as you, as we're going through Season Two, and we have the whole issue of, of Tommy finding out a little bit more about Rachel. Finding out that he didn't know certain things. And that was, as we find out as well, concretely that was a point of pride that time he was actually holding onto. And you know, it probably wasn't the best for him to make it about himself the way that he did. But he really did hold himself higher knowing that he knew these things about Rachel's past that other people didn't know. So then when he finds out that there are things he did not know, he just kind of shuts down. And that goes back to what I was saying before about how he's so passionate about everything. He really, really loves his little sister, Rachel, and he always wants to protect her. And as far as he knows, he always has been there to do that. And now that just kind of gets shattered. And so he has to figure out how to not make it about him by showing her how much he loves her how much he supports her and that he wants to be able to stick with her no matter what. But he also by the time this all is happening in Season Two, he's matured enough to understand that that has to have a process. He knows that is not going to immediately go away. And I think they're actually a couple really mature conversations between Tommy and Rachel of, "Hey, how you doing?" "Not so great. Getting there." "All right, we'll check in again later." Because they both know they need some time.

Peter Sofronas  9:46 
Which is you know, which is very true to life. I think, in the grand scheme of things. I mean, the idea of you know, the non sitcom motif where you know, where things are not necessarily better at the end of 30 minutes, 20 minutes or 15 — however long This episode is these days, but stuff carries on. Things take time. And that's the whole point of this whole series is that over the course of three years, relationships evolve, change, and new ones come along.

Dan Murray  10:16 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  10:17 
And there is healing. It's just not an overnight process. Speaking of healing, the big issue in in Tommy's life is his father.

Dan Murray  10:26 
Yep.

Peter Sofronas  10:27 
So where we are right now, both john and Tommy have been in the hospital for various reasons. And that kind of gives a different perspective on their strained relationship.

Dan Murray  10:38 
Yeah, yeah, I think the relationship that John and Tommy have is one that a lot of people can relate to, especially unfortunately, a lot of people in the LGBTQIA+ community. A lot of people who were born in a different generation, as they say, were raised thinking that anything like this is unacceptable, not okay. or anywhere between there. And John, especially with his own perspective of being more or less a public figure, being a literal judge, he takes it upon himself to try to teach Tommy the lesson of what happens if you're gay by taking his father away from him. And of course, that's not fair to Tommy. And John has a lot of reflection to do. But for the past 15 years, he hasn't been doing any of that. So now we get into the timeframe of the story. And we see John hit the hospital, we see Tommy hit the hospital, and they both get these moments of this is not worth the time that we have, which is obviously way more limited than we thought it was.

Peter Sofronas  11:46 
The question even to me, as the writer is, you know, do they reconcile, or, and even if they do reconcile what does reconciling mean? Are they ever gonna go back to the way they were?

Dan Murray  11:58 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  11:59 
Probably not. You know, I mean, I can't see buddy buddy film going on with —

Dan Murray  12:03 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  12:04 
With between the two of them. But it's definitely a evolving relationship. Much like, much like they are. It's not black and white. There are definitely a lot of shades of grey, especially now in the timeline, things that — question marks that weren't there —

Dan Murray  12:23 
Right

Peter Sofronas  12:24 
Twenty years ago.

Dan Murray  12:25 
Right. I think they're both starting to come to the realization that I don't think I want to finish my time on this earth without a son, without a father. And maybe it's not going to be perfect, but I can't go on without this extremely important person in my life. And so they're sort of starting to figure out what that means for them.

Peter Sofronas  12:48 
And they each have their own confidants about that.

Dan Murray  12:51 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  12:51 
In some cases, it's the same confidant.

Dan Murray  12:53 
Yeah. That's right. The all knowing Walter.

Peter Sofronas  12:57 
Yes.

Dan Murray  12:58 
I'm trying to keep the timeframes in my head. I don't know from from Season One, all the way to where you and I finished talking. That's all one group of time for me. So I don't know.

Peter Sofronas  13:07 
Yeah, more or less. The last thing we uh hear at this point in time is the is the poker game. And —

Dan Murray  13:14 
Okay.

Peter Sofronas  13:14 
The funeral. The poker game where we learn that Jason has a crush on Tommy, and where David and his father get in an argument about David's ex.

Dan Murray  13:29 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  13:30 
So that's, that's where we left off. So I guess, since I mentioned him, let's bring up Jason here, a new character who appeared on the scene. Well, off camera on in Season One, but definitely on camera and Season Two, played by some hack actor.

Dan Murray  13:54 
I hear he writes in his spare time too.

Peter Sofronas  13:57 
Yeah, he needs to focus on stuff. You know, yeah, he wears way too many hats. So, but Jason.

Dan Murray  14:07 
Jason. Yes. I think the relationship with Jason is really interesting, because it's almost cosmic. Because it's just — yeah, he was the one who saved Tommy from death anyway. And then, and then he lives across the street. And his dog's name is Edgar. And —

Peter Sofronas  14:32 
Lots of coincidences. You know, definitely. I think both. Tommy and Jason are bewildered by the the amount of coincidences that are occurring.

Dan Murray  14:44 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  14:44 
And you know, why their paths have never crossed before.

Dan Murray  14:48 
Yeah. I also think Jason is really interesting in general, because, aside from pretty much everyone else. Well, okay, so maybe, maybe Walter and David, and Jason are like, easy friends, like everyone else is not grating but everyone else butts  heads fairly well, and even with a new person will will give some friction with someone that they're just meeting whereas Jason and to an extent David and Walter, similarly, are just easy. Jason is just easy. He wants to get to know the people around him. He's nice and pleasant, and tries everything he can to avoid conflict and just wants to have some people that he cares about and cares about him. And so that's a really interesting comparison to the overall feel of the rest of the group.

Peter Sofronas  15:46 
He's definitely a new animal.

Dan Murray  15:49 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  15:50 
So to speak, you know, he's very much a mystery. And yet, I'm not even sure I know. everything there is to know about him. You know, there's definitely some things that I'm writing in Season Three that I didn't know in Season Two.

Dan Murray  16:01 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  16:03 
Tommy and Brin have a complicated history.

Dan Murray  16:06 
They do. Yes. And I know that I've gotten some hints about Tommy and Brin's history from you. But even then there's still a lot that I don't really know. I mean, we certainly haven't heard from Brin about her past yet. So we don't really know. We just know that she's got the ex husband. She's got Jax. They're trying to figure that out. Yeah, I mean, it's I know they've known each other for a long time they give each other shit all the time.

Peter Sofronas  16:33 
Yeah, Brin was in the same circles that Tommy and Steven were.

Dan Murray  16:37 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  16:38 
You know, so to actually have someone in the crowd who knew him.

Dan Murray  16:44 
Yeah.

Peter Sofronas  16:45 
Knew Steven. You know, whereas, you know, most of the people, it's ancient history for.

Dan Murray  16:49 
Right.

Peter Sofronas  16:50 
Obviously, Rachel and Brin know him but nobody else in the crowd does.

Dan Murray  16:55 
Right. So yeah, it's interesting to see more and more that. I mean, Tommy and Brin are always gonna fight, they're always gonna butt heads are always gonna give each other shit. But you can always tell even during those moments that they'll have each other's backs.

Peter Sofronas  17:07 
And I don't think either one of them is willing to admit that they like the other. They they both like each other, probably more than they're willing to admit.

Dan Murray  17:15 
Yeah, absolutely.

Peter Sofronas  17:17 
I mean, we've got a long list of characters, we could be here for hours. So any other characters jump out at you that you know, they have a special connection?

Dan Murray  17:26 
Yeah, I'm really, I'm really interested to see how Tommy and KC help each other learn and grow. Because KC has already shown themself to be a really wise-for-their-age person, and shows intellectual capacity and maturity, comparable to most of the adults. KC has the wisdom that doesn't make them feel like a teenager, like a younger kid, like someone who, while they may not fit in with the group, they really do have the same capacity, it seems. And it's really interesting when they have things to say they can really just see through people I mean, one of KC and Tommy's first scenes, KC just goes right to one of Tommy's greatest insecurities, 'cause they can just see it in him. And that's really interesting to me. But then, as Tommy and KC start to talk and understand each other more, KC and Tommy are sort of gravitating because while they're not living the same experience, they're living in the same group of experience. And so KC sees Tommy as if not necessarily a potential mentor, someone who at least understands them and the troubles they may be going through and wants to kind of confide and understand more about life from Tommy.

Peter Sofronas  18:43 
There is the question with with KC and Tommy, which one is the mentor though.

Dan Murray  18:48 
That's true.

Peter Sofronas  18:48 
To some degree.

Dan Murray  18:49 
And that's part of why I think the relationship is so interesting, because KC really does have that maturity. And as much as Tommy might have years, KC really can distill things down to what really matters.

Peter Sofronas  19:02 
Obviously, with COVID going on, there needed to be a bit of redirecting. Also the fact that you know, in between Seasons One and Two, you moved from the east coast to the west coast. So you know, there was you know, I'll admit, there was a panic moment in between seasons were like, Am I gonna have to find another new Tommy?

Dan Murray  19:21 
No, never. Can't get rid of me that easily.

Peter Sofronas  19:24 
But you know, we — even before COVID hit, we realized that you know, that we could record separately and for those people in the audience, Season One, it was largely everyone was crowded into a basement makeshift recording studio and most of the scenes were done with the entire cast together for that scene, you know, multiple takes of which I spliced the best takes out of — editing nightmare have to say — but in 80% of the cases, you know, what you got was what you're hearing in the end. There were a few instances where schedules kept certain actors — The party scene. You know, the the joke was, you know, Walter has his line of, you know, it shouldn't be this difficult to take to have six or seven people in a room. The joke being that at no point when we were recording that was everybody. And they were, I think Max and Brin never actually were in the same room together.

Dan Murray  20:28 
Oh, yeah.

Peter Sofronas  20:30 
Which then once COVID hit, realizing that we have to do everything remotely, in which 95% of the Season Two recordings was done over Zoom. There were a couple of instances in which, you know, so I socially distanced across the room with with a portable recorder. But on the whole Season One, you were reacting to your live actors around you. Season Two. And presumably going forward, you're recording opposite me.

Dan Murray  21:00 
Yeah

Peter Sofronas  21:00 
Playing all the parts.

Dan Murray  21:01 
Yeah, I do think that's very interesting. And it, what's what's interesting to me is, I might have — well, along with you, but compared to the rest of the actors, I might have a bit of a unique perspective, given my own history of sound engineering, recording, editing, and all that where I've heard you say it a number of times, and I agree, when in the post processing side, and the editing side, putting it all together, and really compiling and finishing it, having what we do now, which is essentially actors individually recording, a bunch of takes, and then you have more flexibility, that's way easier on the back end. But as an actor, it's, if anything else more obscure. It's a little bit more challenging. But even then, you know, we can still act, thank God. But it's a little more obscure, because you don't really know how the other actor in your scene is behaving, you don't know exactly what kind of tonality and emotion they're putting in. The best you can do is just go with the lines that are there and react to the way that you're presenting the characters. And so it's an interesting mix of on one side, it's a little bit harder. And on the other side, it's a little bit easier.

Peter Sofronas  22:19 
Yeah, I've had conversations with some of your cast mates who have heard the final results. And they're, they marvel at the idea of that they're listening to themselves have a conversation that they never had.

Dan Murray  22:32 
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And it comes out perfectly smooth. 'Cause again, when you can really isolate it, get a bunch of takes, and then just take it into post, it's a lot easier to make that all flow, but just as an actor in a scene, you're like, well, I guess it's just me making making my character come to life. And then hopefully, I mean, it's it's a trust exercise. Really.

Peter Sofronas  22:53 
There is one scene that we did the old fashioned way.

Dan Murray  22:57 
Yeah,

Peter Sofronas  22:57 
It hasn't been released yet. But it there is a there is a Jason/Tommy scene that we we had to re-record and we much like we're doing this interview, we're we're doing it bi-coastal. But —

Dan Murray  23:09 
In real time

Peter Sofronas  23:10 
You know, most of what was there came from one particular take. But again, that hasn't happened yet. So any particular favorite moments?

Dan Murray  23:21 
Um, I don't know, it's, it's hard to say I really like going through the scripts before we're recording. Because then I get to just learn about where my character is going, learn about where the story is going, find out all these new things. You like to throw a lot of surprises in for the audience. And when we're reading through before we're ready to record, there are surprises for us. And so it's always really neat to just see where the next episode is actually taking us and then prepare to deliver it and bring it to life. I think going through the scripts, having not known what they were going to be yet is among my favorite moments.

Peter Sofronas  24:02 
You're definitely one of the lucky cast members that actually — part of my writing process in which you're — Season Two and even Season Three. So far, it's been the two of us just reading through. So you know, things that most of your castmates don't know.

Dan Murray  24:20 
That's right, I got to keep quiet about it.

Peter Sofronas  24:21 
Of course, there are some cast mates who don't want to know. They're, you know, they they only read their own scenes.

Dan Murray  24:28 
Right.

Peter Sofronas  24:28 
Whereas, you know the whole storyline. Saying that, you know a lot of stuff that's coming forward, but what if what's some things that you might not know that you want to know?

Dan Murray  24:39 
I'm really interested to see where Tommy and John's relationship ends up. Because I mean, we've already talked about that. It's obviously very strained. They're both working on it, but we still don't know what the endgame is. We still don't know what kind of speaking terms they're on at the end of their relationship. We don't know, if they start to be able to help each other out again, if they start to be able to have casual conversations again, or if that's just never going to happen. And we've just kind of seen, essentially what closure they get. I'd be really interested to see where that goes, I'm really interested to see Tommy and Casey's relationship carry on. As I mentioned before, I think that's a really interesting point. And I'm excited to see where that goes. And then I look forward to Tommy and Rachel just kind of continuing to figure it out.

Peter Sofronas  25:37 
So behind the scenes, there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes, obviously, you're privy to a lot of it. But Season One, Season Two, or even Season Three fun stories that happen behind the scenes.

Dan Murray  25:52 
Well, so this is a little more true for Season One than Season Two, because of the nature of Season Two being more isolated recording. And the epitome I know I wasn't even there for but having had everyone all in the room at the same time. Just like any play, any musical, any production that you go through as an actor, or a crew person, or whatever, when you just break down into laughter. And something's just so ridiculous. Or someone just can't get a line or whatever the reason is, and then everyone's making jokes, right and left just building on it. And we have to eventually, you know, calm back down. Everyone Stop laughing, get your breathing, right, we're going to, we're going to keep going again, but just moments like that. Or when you get to a point in a certain scene where where someone says, "Oh, wouldn't it be funny if this happened," and then you essentially write a whole other short story off on a tangent and then all right, reel it back, and we're back in the real story. But those are always fun moments.

Peter Sofronas  26:52 
I can't tell you how many times I, as a result of what happened in the recording session, I rewrote the ending of a scene, in some cases on the fly. Well, I think that pretty much wraps up our interview segment. Thank you, Dan, for for being my interview guinea pig, so to speak.

Dan Murray  27:11 
My pleasure. And hey, maybe this becomes a seasonal thing.

Peter Sofronas  27:14 
At some point, maybe, you know, after we get through some of the individual ones, we might have a combination of you guys.

Dan Murray  27:21 
Yeah. Oh, that'd be so much fun. Yeah. Group interviews.

Peter Sofronas  27:24 
Yeah. Maybe by that point, we'll actually be able to be in the same Well, most of us will be in the same room. You'll probably still have to remote in.

Dan Murray  27:31 
I can afford plane tickets sometimes.

Peter Sofronas  27:34 
Okay.

Dan Murray  27:34 
But yes, I will likely be remote.

Peter Sofronas  27:38 
Well, again, thank you, Dan, for for taking the time to talk.

Dan Murray  27:42  
My pleasure.